MISSING IN PAKISTAN
Transcription (French and Italian translations below – traductions française et italienne ci-dessous – traduzioni francese e italiana sotto)

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[Missing in Pakistan - Duration 00:24:00:03 - Producer: Ziad Zafar]

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[Prayer call]

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Journalist
like most military dictatorships

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Pakistan has a dismal human rights record

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[Prayer call]

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For years, the people of Pakistan have suffered humiliation

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and widespread violation of their civil and political rights.

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Violence against women and minority groups has been endemic

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In a system prone to persecution and witch-hunts.

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But Pakistan's involvement in America's war on terror 

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has given these violations an entirely new dimension

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International Human Rights organisations

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claim that the war has given the military government in Islamabad

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an effective smokescreen to authorize arbitrary detention, torture

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and has lead to the adoption of a sinister new tactic in dealing with dissent.

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They say it sponsored kidnapping

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The Pakistani government has flatly denied the accusations. 

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But in recent years,  hundreds of people have just disappeared.

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They are believed to be in the custody of Pakistan's intelligence agencies

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Some surface in Guantanamo Bay Others - are not so lucky.

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They remain missing in Pakistan

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[Veiled lady: At least tell me what his fault was?]

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[Old lady: For Allah's sake, give me back my son]

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[MISSING IN PAKISTAN]

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Anjelicka Pathak - Amnesty International 
We know that about 2/3 of the people in Guantanamao Bay 

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Anjelicka Pathak - Amnesty International 
were handed through unlawfully by Pakistan to US custody.

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There are numerous people who have disappeared

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in various secret sites around the world

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and there are many, an unknown number of people

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who have disappeared in Pakistan itself.

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 So it is not possible to give an exact number. But every one of them is one too many

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Wasi Zafar - Pakistani Minister for Law, HR and Justice  
This is just a novel, it is just a novel. This is, this is not ... this is a lie

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Journalist
Whose lie

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Wasi Zafar
what is it? This is Amnesty International's lie

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Ali Dayan - Human Rights Watch
 Now, this is, in the vast array of Human Rights violations

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that we have documented in Pakistan -

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this development is a new one. We know that

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disappearances, as a form of law-enforcement

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is something that has been introduced to Pakistan post the war on terror

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which means that the US has had a - well, an absolutely crucial role to play

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Journalist
Yes, those people

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Wasi Zafar - Pakistani Minister for Law, HR and Justice
No these are  pictures, just pictures

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Journalist
these are real people these are people

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W. Zafar 
Nooo! Listen, no no listen, what is happening.

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Persons like - and children like you who exploit the things -

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these persons normally go for terrorism,

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they run away from their houses, they join some organisations, 

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they disappear by themselves.

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Journalist
But behind the pictures exist real human stories

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like that of Amina Masood, a 42-year old college teacher and mother of 3.

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Her husband Masood went missing 2 years ago and has not been seen since.

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An engineer by profession, 

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Masood was a born-again Muslim preacher,

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but Amina insists he was not linked to any political group.

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 She says she knew instantly that he had been abducted by intelligence agencies

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Amina Masood
I was assuming it from the beginning,

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because those where the days when the newspapers were full of news like this

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The government was picking so many thousands of people - of like -that kind of appeals.

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And they were not concerned they weren't picking up the right people - 

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or the wrong people.

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All they had to, they had to please Washington and they had to please, you know

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Bush and Blair. That was the new purpose of our government.

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If anything - anything wrong happened to Masood

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If - if any damage to his health would have come

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I'm not going to forgive. 

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As long as I am alive I'm not going to forgive. 

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I'm going to ask those people, They're responsible for it.

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And why, why such a good person is tortured?

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Why such a good person is picked up and kept in illegal custody?

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And the family doesn't even know  the children do not even know why

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and why our father and when and when and for how long?

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It's a series of question marks.

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I must find him at all cost. I must find him wherever he is,

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I must snatch him back

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From that day onwards I - I never rested.

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Journalist
Though no government official would help her

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Amina has worked at Amnesty  to find her husband

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She found a joint action forum and brought the other 100's of families like hers 

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Women chanting (in Urdu)
[Give us back our loved ones]

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Journalist
to protest the illegal detention of their relatives

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But when they tried to protest 

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outside the headquarters of Pakistan's military establishment,

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they were told to go home or face dire consequences

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Man
Just give me one good reason (?)

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Journalist
 When they persisted the protest was broken up

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and many were arrested including Amina's 16-year old son Mohamed

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Amina Masood
[Leave my son alone]

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Amina Masood
[Let my son go]

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Police Officer
[Get to the side]

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[shouts]

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[Man: What are you doing... Let him wear his clothes]

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Mohamed: 
[Help me ... Help me!]

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Police Officer:
[Throw him inside ... spoilt brat]

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Mohamed
[Why wont anyone help me - Why wont anyone help me?]

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Amina
[I want my son right now.]

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[my son, I want him back right now]

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Amina's daughter
[Ma, please save my brother]

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[please bring him back]

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[Ma, please save my brother]

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Amina
[Why did you strip him?]

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[Bastards! die die die, I hope you all die]

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Amina and daughter
[Bastards! die die die, I hope you all die]

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Amina
[I hope God doesn't grant you a funeral]

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[I pray he doesn't grant you anything]

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[I hope you all die]

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[Dont you dare touch my children]

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Amina Masood
Like a daughter of the nation, is that what I deserved?

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Was that such a big crime to protest, to ask about my husband, that when he's going to return

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and what crime he has done? At least I should know what crime he has done

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why he's being kept away from us

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Do we have no basic rights?

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Wasi Zafar - Pakistani Minister for Law, Human Rights and Justice
Yes, these are baseless, these are - No, no, these are exaggerated. Exaggerated

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The word business I am saying [?] - You are saying the word business

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I have not used the word until now. You are using the word business

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I am saying, these are exaggerated

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Ali Dayan – HRW
Pakistan has an extensive intelligence apparatus, a security apparatus

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right down the neighbourhood level in Pakistan,

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you have intelligence agency monitoring.

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This is a fact of life in Pakistan there is no way round this and I think

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that we are far beyond the point in any analysis of Pakistan

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or even in any sort of cursory, basic look at Pakistan

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to deny this, no one denies this, even the military doesn't deny this.

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They are very clear about the fact that they have that sort of presence

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General (retd) Hameed Gul - Former Chief of ISI (1987-90) 
You know, they indulge in these things

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and there are excesses and they do take place in every society.

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For instance about CIA at one point it was said: "that's invisible government" -

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a book was written on them.

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And similarly all the intelligence agencies - er, they have a tendency,

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which is because their job is of a clandestine nature

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they tend to cross the limits and they've got to be reined in 

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and as best as I could, I tried to educate my people,

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to hold them back and even to admonish them on these instances

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Ali Dayan – HRW
We have documented at Human Rights Watch 

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enough cases of torture in the custody of the police, the Pakistani police, 

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and of military intelligence agencies to know that that's just a fact of life,

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 that's how it is, that is what happens here.

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Torture is widespread.

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Asma Jahangir - UN special rapporteur on Torture
and there is huge evidence, overwhelming, 

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that the government of Pakistan is maintaining illegal detention centers 

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where torture goes on as a routine.

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Journalist: 
Ali Hassan was kept in a torture cell for 3 months

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and interrogated jointly by American and Pakistani intelligence agents

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Nervously [?], he agreed to speak to us 

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but only if we didn't use his real name or show his face

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Ali Hassan' - Victim of enforced disappearance and torture

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[They blindfolded us and put hoods on our heads]

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[and then shoved us into a car]

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[when they opened our blindfolds we were in the cell]

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[it was a basement somewhere, thats all i could tell...]

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[They tortured us in different ways]

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[They used to cane the soles of my feet]

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[They would keep me tied up and wouldn't let me sleep...]

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[for up to five days at a stretch sometimes.]

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[I received electric shocks twice]

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[They would hook my finger up and attach a clip to my stomach and pass the current through that.

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[The first time it was unbearable... It felt like lots of people beating you with sticks.]

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[Then I would regain consciousness it didn't feel so bad. The first time was the worst.]

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[They kept asking me where I'd hidden the dynamite. I kept telling them i didn't know.]

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I've never even seen dynamite in real life... I've only ever seen it in the movies -]

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Aftab Sherpao - Pakistani Interior Minister: When you talk of the War on Terror
When you talk of the war on terror, I think - it's a different sort of a war.

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Here, you don't look - you all look - the damage they cause or the terror that they cause to the innocent people.

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We are in the mids of that sort of a situation where we are fighting a war against terror.

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Journalist
what you say is that some - if not as many as I suggested -

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that some basic liberties have been the casualty of this war on terror?

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Sherpao
What do you mean by some basic liberties have been--?

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Journalist
That certain human rights have been overlooked or trampled

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Sherpao
You are talking about the liberties of the terrorists?

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Journalist
of citizens

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Sherpao
of the terrorists?

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Abdul Hafeez Lakho - Human Rights Lawyer: 
We are at zero point now

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All this is happening, yes. We are living as free citiens, which we are not

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I'm not moving or I'll be picked up - For what offence will I be picked up,

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What wrong? .... [?] which will displease somebody

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Iqbal Haider - Secretary General, Human rights Commission of Pakistan:
I don't find appropriate words

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to condemn this practice of disappearances in such a blatant manner

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and to make innocent people suffer and languish and subjected to torture.

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Oh my God, there can't be a greater inhuman barbary.

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This is not a Gestapo age

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Journalist
While there has been an expansion in media space in Pakistan
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attacks on journalists have increased in recent years

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The Committee to protect journalists,  a New York-based watch-dog group,

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rated Pakistan among the top 3 countries where press freedom is endangered.

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Reporters on location [...?] Sanjay Kumar [?]

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shot footage of US fighter jets taking off from an air base from inside Pakistan

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one the government had denied was being used by the US.

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They were kept in illegal detention for 3 months and tortured.

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They were lucky to be released

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Woman
[It's ok, don't cry. Its alright now]

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Journalist
but are not since talking of their ordeal.

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Woman
[It's ok, don't cry darling. Its all alright now.]

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 [everything is fine...]

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Tasnim Aslam - Pakistan Foreign Office Spokesperson
I'm not aware of any journalist being ehm. abducted or it has...

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Voices  quoting names [?]

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Man 
It goes on and journalists have been [...?] I can tell you that

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T.Aslam
I ah - I have not heard of any journalist Er, being harrassed 

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I am not aware of any specific case - there was a case of one journalist

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who had disappeared - Hayatullah ... [sp?] He - er, unfortunately, that was very sad

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his dead body was later recovered

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Journalist
Journalist Hayatullah Khan [sp?] took a photograph of something 

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Pakistan's government said was never there: wreckage of the US hell fire missile

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that destroyed a house in Pakistan's tribal area, killing several Pakistani civilians

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and one suspected Al Qaida militant

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Shouts
[Tyrants! Answer for the blood you have shed!]

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Journalist
But there are more cases than the Foreign Office is willing to talk about - 

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countless cases of harassment and detention of journalists have been documented.

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Shouts
[Stop aggression against journalists]

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Journalist
There has been a vociferous outcry by journalists and members of civil society

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[Police attack on the office of Geo News - 19 March 2007]

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Journalist
but attacks on the press have continued.

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General [retd] Hameed Gul - Former Chief of ISI (1986-90)
You know that the international community does not come down hard upon it.

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The Americans have chosen to remain quiet on this because they have - they are setting the example,

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they are setting the tone: ehm, they picked up people, 

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taken them to Gunatanamo Bay  and to Abu Grahib.

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Stories are out, and torture camps in  Kandahar  and [...?] and all the stories are there.

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So basically, as the world leader, world leader and flag carrier in Human Rights

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America excels.

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When it is the world leader of the Human Rights

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then obviously the small minions who are our rulers - they can go to any extent.

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Justice Nasir Aslam Zahid - Former Supreme Court Judge
If at all, the aid would be stopped to Pakistan by the US and other agencies, 

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it would not be on account of Human Rights' violation. It will be for other reasons.

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It will be a policy decision will be taken - but not ditch Pakistan [?]

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They will say: "Pakistan is no longer a country which is required in this process"

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Or "Pakistan has gone, has done enough for our victory in Afghanistan".

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And I think Pakistan will be punished for that, and not for Human Rights violation.

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[Amina Masood filed a legal petition on behalf of nearly a hundred families of missing people asking the courts to help find their loved ones -]

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[Pakistan's top judge, Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudry, took up the case and called the military government to account for ist role in enforced disappearances.]

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[In March 2007, while the case was being heard, General Musharraf dismissed the Chief Justice and put him under house arrest.

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[The country exploded in a spate of violent protests that almost brought down Musharraf's rule...]

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[Rally voices mainly in Urdu, with "Go Musharraf Go" in En. ]

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TV journalist
The capital of Pakistan, Islamabad, is a battlefield today, as thousands have come out to protest

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the Chief [....?] deposed - Supreme Justice Chaudry Iftikhar.

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It is being widely seen as an autocratic assault on the judiciary while increasingly

[00:17:09.20]
Dictatorial [....?]

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 Civil society has been incensed by images of the Supreme Court Justice being dragged by his hair

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and man-handled by a low police officer.

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Thousands continue to protest across the country -  Dozens have been arrested

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Judges have left their benches, lawyers refused to plead cases,

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the opposition parties are united in condemnation and the press has gone to assault.

[00:17:31.00]
A storm is brewing in Pakistan as the military dictator romanced [?] by the West

[00:17:31.00]
now seems to be losing his grip

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[rally voices with "Go Musharraf Go"]

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[The White House declined to comment on the political crisis, terming it:]

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["An internal matter of the people of Pakistan"]

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Roedad Khan - Environmentalist and retired Civil Servant
Why you organize here this? The land of Madison, the land of Jefferson, 

[00:17:55.00]
people who, who believed in government of the people by the people for the people -

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Why are they supporting [....?] Why are they supporting [...?] who is [...?] in Pakistan?

[00:18:07.10]
They have one rule for themselves, they have another rule for the people of Pakistan

[00:18:12.20]
that does out democracy. Why does democracy end here? [?]

[00:18:16.20]
Why don't they apply democracy to Pakistan?

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[applause]

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Bush 
Thank you all.

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[applause]

[00:18:48.20]
Bush
Thanks, thanks for the warm welcome.

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Our strategy to protect America is based on a clear premiss:

[00:18:56.10]
the security of our nation depends on the advance of liberty in other nations.

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In September 11, 2001, we saw that

[00:19:05.00]
the problems originating in a failed and oppresive state 7'000 miles away

[00:19:10.20]
could bring murder and destruction to our country. We saw that dictatorships shelter terrorists,

[00:19:18.10]
feed resentment and radicalism and threaten the security of free nations.

[00:19:24.10]
Democracies replace resentment with hope.

[00:19:28.10]
Democracies respect the rights  of their citizens and their neighbours,

[00:19:31.20]
Democracies join the fight against terror.

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And so America's committed to an historic, long term goal:

[00:19:39.20]
to secure the peace of the world, we seek the end of tyranny in our world.

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[The United State of America has consistently supported successive military dictatorships in Pakistan over a period of sixty years]

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[Countrywide protests for missing people and in support of an indipendent judiciary have persisted for three months after the dismissal of the Chief Justice.]

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[Over forty-five people have lost their lives in the ensuing political violence

[00:20:12.20]
[REPORTED CASES OF ENFORCED DISAPPEARANCE IN PAKISTAN AFTER 2001. SOURCE: HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION OF PAKISTAN [HRCP] - followed by their names]

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Ejaz Ahsan Human Rights Commissioner of Pakistan 
... people you are talking about [....?] numbers, these are people

[00:20:37.20]
Man (check who)
The intelligence agencies have the audacity to be [?... ] to be the government officials

[00:20:42.20]
that nobody is in our custody.

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Wazi Zafar: 
Most of them, for erh, these are, they are in war in terrorism

[00:21:03.00]
Man [check]: 
This is not done, this is not acceptable. This is not tolerable

[00:21:08.20]
How dare you say that we can disclothe the child? 

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Aftab Sherpao: 
Erh, I'm also concerned.

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Everyone is concerned if someone makes a  and cry about a missing person.

[00:21:22.10]
We are all concerned in this sense.

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Journalist
But what measures is the government taking specificly in the case of missing people, to try and trace them...

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Sherpao
What can the government do?

[00:21:31.00]
The government can, you know, find out - er, if he belongs to a province,

[00:21:36.00]
from the provincial government, from others

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Journalist
... officers [?]

[00:21:39.25]
Sherpao
Sorry?

[00:21:40.10]
Journ.
 it's the government's job.

[00:21:40.10]
Sherpao
it's the government's [...?] 

[00:21:42.10]
No, when it is about - we [notice that they're gone -?]

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Ali Dayan
We cannot have a situation where - just because you are the armed party - 

[00:21:56.10]
means you can come in, kidnap me or kill me,  with no fear 

[00:22:01.20]
of  any kind of law coming to bear on you.

[00:22:20.20]
Roedad Khan
there is hope for missing people

[00:22:22.00]
There is hope for women in this country

[00:22:24.00]
There is hope for the people of Pakistan

[00:22:26.00]
Do have not bitterness

[00:22:27.30]
The power of the powerless

[00:22:29.20]
You will see the power of the powerless. Very soon.


MISSING IN PAKISTAN: traduction française de la transcription

[00:00:00.00]
[Missing in Pakistan / Disparaître au Pakistan- Durés 00:24:00:03 - Réalisateur: Ziad Zafar]

[00:00:13.01]
[Appel à la prière]

[00:00:23.10]
Journaliste
Comme la plupart des dictatures militaires

[00:00:25.10]
Le Pakistan a un lamentable palmarès en Droits Humains

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[Appel à la prière]

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Depuis des années, les Pakistanais subissent des humiliations

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et de vastes violations de leurs droits civiques et politiques.

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La violence contres les femmes et lesminorités est endémique

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dans un système tendant à la persécution et aux chasses aux sorcières.

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Mais l'engagement du Pakistan dans la  "guerre contre la terreur" de l'Amérique

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a conféré à ces violations une dimension entièrement nouvell.

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Les organisations internationales pour la protection des Droits Humains

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affirment que cette guerre a offert au gouvernement militaire d'Islamabad

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un rideau de fumée efficace pour autoriser la détention arbitraire, la torture

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et a mené à l'adoption de'une nouvelle tactique sinistre  dans l'affrontement de l'opposition.

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On dit que c'est des enlèvements sur commande

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Le gouvernement pakistanais a toujours nié les accusations en bloc.

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Mais ces dernières années, des centaines de personns ont simplement disparu.

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On croit qu'ils sont détenus par les services secrets pakistanais.

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Certains réapparaissent à Guantanamo Bay. D'autres ont moins de chance.

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Ils restent disparus au Pakistan.

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[Femme voilée: Au moins, dites-moi ce qu'il a fait de mal?]

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[Femme âgée: Pour l'amour de Dieu, rendez-moi mon fils]

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[DISPARAÎTRE AU PAKISTAN]

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Anjelicka Pathak - Amnesty International 
Nous savons qu'environ 2/3 des gens de Guantanamo Bay

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Anjelicka Pathak - Amnesty International 
ont été remis illégalement par la Pakistan aux Etats-Unis.

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Beaucoup de gens ont disparu

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et sont détenus dans plusieurs sites secrets dans le mone ntier.

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Et beaucoup de personnes – on ne connaît pas le nombre exact - 

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ont disparu au Pakistan même.

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Il est donc impossible de donner un chiffre précis. Mais chacune d'elle est une de trop.

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Wasi Zafar – Ministre pakistanais du Droit, des Droits Humains et de la Justice
C'est du roman, rien que cu roman. C'est, ce n'est pas .... c'est un mensonge.

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Journaliste
Le mensonge de qui?

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Wasi Zafar
Qu'est-ce que c'est? C'est le mensonge d'Amnesty International.

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Ali Dayan - Human Rights Watch
Dans la vaste gamme de violations des Droits Humains

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que nous avons recensées au Pakistan -

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ceci est un nouvau développement. Nous savons que

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les disparitions, comme forme de maintien de l'ordre 

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sont un phénomène qui a été introduit au Pakistan après la guerre au terrorisme

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ce qui veut dire que les USA ont eu – ont joué un rôle absolument crucial.

[00:03:01.26]
Journaliste
Oui, ces personnes

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Wasi Zafar - Pakistani Minister for Law, HR and Justice
Non, ce sont des photos, rien que des photos

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Journaliste
Ce sont des personnes réelles, ce sont des prsonnes

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W. Zafar 
Noooon! Nonnon, Ecoutez-moi, écoutez ce qui se passe.

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Les personnes comme – et les enfants comme vous qui exploitent les choses -

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ces personnes choisissent normalement terrorisme

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elles fuguent, rejoignent certaines organisations 

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elles disparaissent d'elles-mêmes.

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Journaliste
Mais derrière les photos, il y a de réelles histoires humaines

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comme celle d'Amina Masood, une enseignante universitaire de 42 ans, mère de 3 enfants.

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Son mari Masood a disparu il y a 2 ans et personne ne l'a plus vu depuis.

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Ingénieur de profession,

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Masood était un prédicateur musulman "born again" (check),

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mais Amina affirme qu'il n'était lié à aucun groupe politique.

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Elle dit qu'elle a su tout de suite qu'il avait été enlevé par les services secrets

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Amina Masood
Je l'ai pensé dès le début,

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parce qu'alors, les journaux étaient pleins de nouvelles comme ça

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Le gouvernement prélevaient des milliers de gens – comme danse ce genre d'appels.

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Et ça leur était égal s'ils prélevaient les gens justes - 

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ou s'ils se trompaient.

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Ils devaient seulement contenter Washington et contenterd, vous savez,

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Bush et Blair. C'était devenu le nouveau but de notre gouvernement.

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S'il est arrivé quoi que ce soit – quoi que ce soit de mal à Masood

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Si il a été atteint dans sa santé

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Je ne pardonnerai pas. 

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Tant que je vivrai, je ne pardonnerai pas. 

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Je vais poser des questions à ces gens. Ils en sont responsables.

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Et pourquoi, pourquoi une personne aussi bonne est torturée?

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Pourquoi une personne aussi bonne est prélevée et est détenue illégalement?

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Et la famille ne sait même pas, les enfants ne savent pas pourquoi

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et pourquoi notre père et quand, et quand, t où, et pour combien de temps?

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C'est une série de points d'interrogation.

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Je dois le trouver, à tout prix. Je dois le trouver, où qu'il soit.

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Je dois le leur arracher et le ramener

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Depuis ce jour là, je – je n'ai plus eu de repos.

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Journaliste
Même si aucun fonctionnaire du gouvernement n'a voulu l'aider

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Amina s'est adressée à Amnesty pour trouver son mari

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Elle a trouvé (?) un forum d'action commune et y a rassemblé des centaines de familles comme la sienne

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Women chanting (in Urdu)
[Rendez-nous nos chers parents]

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Journaliste
pour protester contre la détention illégales de leurs parents

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Mais quand ils ont essayé de manifester

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devant le quartier général du pouvoir militaire pakistanais,

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on leur a dit de rentrer chez eux, sous peine de conséquences sinistres

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Homme
Donnez-moi une seule bonne raison (?)

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Journaliste
Quand ils ont continué, la manifestation a été dispersée

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et beaucoup de gens ont été arrêtés, y compris le fils d'Amina, Mohamed, 17 ans

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Amina Masood
]Ne touchez pas mon fils]

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Amina Masood
[Lâchez mon fils]

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Policier
[Ecartez-vous]
[Get to the side]

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[cris]

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[Homme: Que faites-vous... Laissez-lui ses habits]

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Mohamed: 
[Aidez-moi... aidez-moi!]

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Policier:
[Jetant Mohamed dans le camion ... sale enfant gâté]

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Mohamed
[Pourquoi personne ne m'aide – Pourquoi personne ne m'aide?]

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Amina
[Je veux mon fils – tout de suite]

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[Mon fils – Je le reveux tout de suite]

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La fille d'Amina
[Maman, sauve mon frère, s'il te plaît]

[00:07:02.20]
[ramène-le, s'il te plaît]

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[Maman, sauve mon frère, s'il te plaît]

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Amina
[Pourquoi l'avez-vous déshabillé]

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[Salauds! Mourez, mourez, mourez – j'espère que vous mourrez tous]

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Amina and daughter
[Salauds! Mourez, mourez, mourez – j'espère que vous mourrez tous]

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Amina
[J'espère que Dieu ne vous accordera pas d'enterrement]

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[Je prie pour qu'il ne vous accorde rien]

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[J'espère que vous mourrez tous]

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[N'osez pas toucher mes enfants]

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Amina Masood
Comme fille de la nation, est-ce que je méritais ça?

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Manifester, poser des questions sur mon mari, demander quand il reviendra – était-ce un tel crime?

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et de quoi il est coupable? Au moins, je devrais savoir de quoi il est coupable

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pourquoi on le garde loin de nous

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N'avons-nous pas de droits fondamentaux?

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Wasi Zafar – Ministre pakistanais du Droit, des Droits Humains et de la Justice
Oui, ces accusations sont sans fondements – Non non, elles sont exagérées, exagérées.

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Le mot affaires – c'est vous qui utilisez le mot affaires

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Jusqu'à maintenant, je n'ai pas utilisé ce mot. C'est vous qui utilisez le mot affaires

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Je dis que ces accusations sont exagérées

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Ali Dayan – HRW
Le Pakistan a un vaste système de services secrets, de sécurité

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Jusqu'au niveau du quartier, au Pakistan,

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il y a une surveillance des services secrets

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C'est un fait de la vie au Pakistan, un fait incontournable, et je crois

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que nous avons de loin dépassé le point, dans une quelconque analyse du Pakistan 

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ou même dans n'importe quel regard rapide, superficiel, porté sur le Pakistan 

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où l'on pouvait le nier. Personne ne le nie, même le pouvoir militaire ne le nie pas.

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Ils disent très clairement qu'ils ont cette sorte de présence

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Général (à la retraite) Hameed Gul – Ex-chef de l'ISI (1987-90) 
Vous savez, ils se laissent aller à ces choses

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Et il y a des excès, et ils se produisent dans toutes les sociétés.

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Par exemple, on a dit une fois de la CIA que c'était "un gouvernement invisible" -

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on a écrit un livre sur eux.

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Semblablement, tous les services secrets – euh, ont une tendance 

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due à la nature clandestine de leur travail

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ils tendent à dépasser les limites, et il faut les retenir

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du mieux que j'ai pu, j'ai essayé d'éduques mes gens,

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de les retenir, et même de leur faire des remontrances dans des cas comme celui-ci.

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Ali Dayan – HRW
A Human Rights Watch, nous avons documenté

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assez de cas de torture de personne sous la garde de la police pakistanaise,

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et des services secrets de l'armée, pour savoir que c'est simplement un fait de lavie,

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c'est comme ça, c'est ce qui se passe ici.

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La torture est répandue

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Asma Jahangir – Rapporteure spéciale de l'ONU sur la Torture
Et il y a beaucoup de preuves, énormément de preuves,

[00:09:50.10]
que le gouvernement pakistanais a des centres illégaux de détention

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où la torture est de routine.

[00:10:01.10]
Journaliste: 
Ali Hassan a été détenu dans une cellule de torture pendant 3 mois

[00:10:03.20]
et interrogé à la fois par des agents des services secrets américains et pakistanais

[00:10:08.00]
Nerveusement (?), il a accepté de nous parler

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mais seulement si nous n'utilisions pas son vrai non, et si nous ne montrions pas son visage

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Ali Hassan -  victime de disparition forcée et de torture

[00:10:17.00]
[Il nous ont bandé les yeux et nous ont mis des capuchons]

[00:10:19.00]
[et ils nous ont poussés dans une voitire]

[00:10:21.30]
[quand ils nous ont enlevé les bandeaux nous étions dans la cellule]

[00:10:25.20]
[c'était en sous-sol quelque part, c'est tout ce que je peux dire...]

[00:10:29.20]
[Ils nous ont torturé de différentes mainères]

[00:10:33.00]
[Ils m'ont donné des coups de cane sur la plante des pieds]

[00:10:37.20]
[Ils me ligotaient et ne me laissaient pas dormir...]

[00:10:40.00]
[parfois pendant jusqu'à 5-6 jours.]

[00:10:42.10]
[Deux fois, ils m'ont fait des électrochocs]

[00:10:45.20]
[Ils branchaient le courant à mon doigt et attachaient une pince à mon estomac, puis faisaient passer le courant par là.]

[00:10:56.10]
[La première fois, c'était unsupportable, c'était comme si des tas de gens te flanquaiend des coups de bâton.]

[00:11:04.10]
[Puis je reprenais connaissance, ce n'était pas si terrible. La première fois était la pire.]

[00:11:15.10][Ils continuaient à me demander oÙ j'avais caché la dynamite. Je continuais à leur dire que je ne savais pas.]

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Je n'ai jamais vu de dynamite dans la vie réelle... seulement au cinéma -]

[00:11:26.00]
Aftab Sherpao – Ministre de l'Intérieur du Pakistan: Quand vous parlez de la Guerre contre le terrorisme -
Quand vous parlez de la Guerre contre le terrorisme, je crois – c'est une différente sorte de guerre.

[00:11:33.10]
Ici, vous ne considérez pas – vous  considérez tout – les dégâtsou la terreur  qu'ils causent  aux innocents.

[00:11:43.00]
Nous sommes en plein dans une espèce de situation de guerre contre le  terrorisme.

[00:11:51.00]
Journaliste
Vous dites que certaines libertés – même si moins nombreuses que je ne le suggérais -

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que certaines libertés fondamentales ont été victimes de cette guerre contre le terrorisme?

[00:12:00.20]
Sherpao
Qu'entendez-vous quand vous dites que certaines libertés fondamentales ont été...=

[00:12:03.10]
Journaliste
Que certains droits humains ont été négligés ou piétinés.

[00:12:09.00]
Sherpao
Vous parlez des libertés des terroristes?

[00:12:14.10]
Journaliste
des citoyens

[00:12:15.00]
Sherpao
des terroristes?

[00:12:17.00]
Abdul Hafeez Lakho -avocat défenseur des Droits Humains: 
Nous sommes tombés à zéro, maintenant

[00:12:21.00]
Tout ceci se passe réellement. Nous vivons comme des citoyens libres, mais nous ne le sommes pas

[00:12:27.10]
Je ne bouge pas, autrement ils me ramasseront – Pour quel délit ils me ramasseront.

[00:12:31.10]
Quelle mauvaise action ? Si j'ai fait quelque chose qui aura déplu à quelqu'un

[00:12:37.10]
Iqbal Haider - Secrétaire Général, Commission des droits humains du Pakistan:
Je n'arrive pas à trouver les mots  qu'il faut

[00:12:39.10]
pour condamner cette pratique de faire disparaître les gens de façon si éhontée

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et de faire souffrir et languir des innocents et de les soumettre à la torture.

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Mon Dieu, il ne peut pas y avoir de  barbarie plus inhumaine.

[00:12:57.00]
Ce n'est pas l'ère de la Gerstapo.

[00:13:01.00]
Journaliste
Alors qu'il y a eu une expansion de l'espace des médias au Pakistan

[00:13:03.20]
les attaques contre les journalistes se seont multiplées ces dernières années

[00:13:07.00]
Le Comité poour pa protection des journalistes, un groupe de surveillance basé à New York.

[00:13:10.20]
place le Pakistan parmi les 3 pays où la liberté de la presse est le plus en danger.

[00:13:17.10]
Les reporters sur le terrain .... et Sanjay Kumar (?)

[00:13:20.0]
ont filmé des jets de combat américains qui décollaient d'une base aérienne au Pakistan,

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une base dont le gouvernement avait nié l'utilisation par les USA.

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Ils ont été détenus illégalement pendant 3 mois et torturés.

[00:13:34.10]
Ils ont eu de la chance d'être relâchés

[00:13:35.10]
Femm
[Tranquille, ne pleure plus, tout va bien maintenant]

[00:13:35.24]
Journaliste
mais n'ont pas parlé depuis de ce qu'ils ont subi.

[00:13:37.30]
Femme
[Tranquille, ne pleure pas, chéri, tout va bien maintenant]

[00:13:43.15]
 [tout va bien...]

[00:13:49.00]
Tasnim Aslam – Porte-parole du ministère des affaires étrangères du Pakistan
Je n'ai pas connaissance de journaliste qui ait été, hem, enlevé ou...

[00:13:54.00]
Voix  qui citent des noms[?]

[00:13:59.30]
Homme 
Cela se pass et des journalistes ont été enlevés, je peux vous le dire

[00:14:02.20]
T.Aslam
Je n'ai pas connaissance qu'aucun journaliste ait été persécuté

[00:14:07.30]
Je n'ai connaissance d'acuun cas spécifique – il y a eu un cas d'un journaliste 

[00:14:12.10]

who had disappeared - Hayatullah ... [orth?] Lui, euh, malheureusement  c'est très triste

[00:14:19.00]
on a retrouvé son cadavre par la suite

[00:14:21.30]
Journaliste
Le journaliste Hayatullah Khan (orth?) avait photographié quelque chose

[00:14:24.00]
dont le gouvernement pakistanais niait l'existenc: des débris d'un missile hellfire américain

[00:14:28.30]
qui avait détruit une maison dans la zone tribale du Pakistan's, tuant plusieurs civils Pakistanais

[00:14:33.10]
et une personne soupçonnée d'être un militant d'Al Qaida.

[00:14:36.20]
Cris
[Tyrans! Répondez du sang que vous avez versé]

[00:14:38.10]
Journaliste
Mais il y a plus de cas que ceux dont le Ministère des affaires étrangères accepte de parler 

[00:14:41.10]
d'innombrabls cas de persécution et de détention de journalistes sont documentés.

[00:14:44.20]
Cris
[Artêtez les aggressions contre les journalistes]

[00:14:46.00]
Journaliste
Il y a eu une sonore indignation des journalistes et de mmbres de la société civile

[00:14:50.20]
[Assaut policier au bureau de Geo News – 19 Mars 2007]

[00:14:51.10]
Journaliste
mais les attaques contre la presse ont continué.

[00:14:57.00]
Général (à la retraite) Hameed Gul – Ex-chef de l'ISI (1987-90)
Vous savez que la communauté internationale ne le condamne pas dûrement

[00:15:00.20]
Les Américains ont choisi de se taire sur ce sujet, parce qu'ils ont – parce qu'ils donnent l'exemple,

[00:15:06.10]
ils donnent le "la", ils ont prélevé des gens,

[00:15:11.10]
les ont ammenés à Gunatanamo Bay  et à Abu Grahib.

[00:15:15.10]
Des histoires sont sortues, et des camps de torture à Kandahar et ]....?] et il y a toutes sortes d'histoires.
Stories are out, and torture camps in  Kandahar  and [...?] and all the stories are there.

[00:15:22.30]
Alors fondamentalement, comme leader mondiale comme porte-bannière des Droits Humains,

[00:15:28.20]¨
l'Amérique excelle.

[00:15:29.30]
Puisqu'elle est le leader des Droits humains

[00:15.32.20]
alors évidemment, ses petits davoris, nos gouvernants, peuvent aller jusqu'à n'importe quel point.

[00:15:39.30]
Juge Nasir Aslam Zahid – ex Juge de la Cour Suprême
Si jamais l'aide des agences US et autres au Pakistan devait s'interrompre, 

[00:15:45.20]
cela ne serait pas à cause des violations des Droits Humains. Ce serait pour d'autres aisons.

[00:15:52.00]
Ce sera qu'une décision politique aura été prise – mais pas de rejeter le Pakistan (?)

[00:15:56.30]
Ils diront: "Le Pakistan n'est plus un pays nécessaire dans ce processus"

[00:16:02.30]
Ou bien "Le Pakistan a assez fait pour notre victoire en Afghanistan".

[00:16:08.10]
Je crois que le Pakistan sera pénalisé pour cela, et non pour les violations aux droits humains.

[00:16:15.20]
[Amina Masood a déposé une pétition formelle au nom de presque 100 familles de disparus, demandant aux tribunaux de les aider à retrouver leurs chers parents -]

[00:16:21.00]
[Le juge le plus haut placé du Pakistan, Iftikhar Chaudry, chef de la Cour Suprême, a pris le cas en mains et demandé au gouvernement militaire de rendre compte de son rôle dans les disparitions forccées.]

[00:16:27.30]
[En Mars 2007, alors que l'affaire était en cours d'audition, le Général Musharraf a renvoyé le Juge chef and 'a mis aux arrêts domiciliaires.]

[00:16:31.00]
[Le pays a explosé en une série de manifestations violentes qui ont presque renversé le régime de Musharraf...]

[00:16:35.00]
[Voix de manifestants, surtout en Urdu, avec "Go Musharraf Go" en anglais. ]

[00:16:54.10]
Journaliste TV

Aujourd'hui la capitale du Pakistan, Islamabad, est un champ de bataille; des milliers de personnes sont descendues dans la rue pour manifester 

[00:17:00.00]
Contre le renvoi du chef de la Cour Suprême, Chaudry Iftikhar.

[00:17:04.30]
Ceci est vu par plus en plus de comme une attaque autocratique au pouvoir judiciaire par un 

[00:17:09.20]
chef toujours plus dictatorial

[00:17:11.30]
La société civile s'est indignée en voyant des images du juge de la court suprême traîné par les cheveux

[00:17:16.20]
et maltraité par un policier de bas rang.

[00:17:19.00]
Des milliers de personnes continuent à protester dans tout le pays – des douzaines de gens ont été arrêtés

[00:17:22.30]
Les juges ont quitté les tribunaux, les avocats ont refusé de plaider,

[00:17:26.00]
les partus de l'opposition sont unis dans la condamnation et la presse est partie à l'assaut.

[00:17:31.00]
Une tempête se prépare au Pakistan, maintenant que le dictateur militaire romancé [?] par l'occident 

[00:17:31.00]
semble perdre le contrôle

[00:17:37.00]
[voix de manifestants, avec "Go Musharraf Go"]

[00:17:40.00]
[La Maison Blanche a refué de commenter la crise politique, la définissnt:]

[00:17:43.00]
["Une affaire intérieure du peuple du Pakistan"]

[00:17:47.00]
Roedad Khan – Défenseur de l'environnment et fonctionnaire retraité
Pourquoi avez vous montéceci? Le pays de Madison, le pays de Jefferson,

[00:17:55.00]
un peuple qui croyait au gouvrnement du peuple par le peuple pur le peuple -

[00:18:01.30]
Pourquoi soutiennent-ils l'incompétenece? Pourquoi soutiennent-ils l'usurpateur de compétences au Pakistan?

[00:18:07.10]
Ils ont une règle pour eux-mêmes, et une règle pour le peuple du Pakistan

[00:18:12.20]
qui détruit la démocracie. Pourquoi la démocracie s'arrête-t-elle ici?

[00:18:16.20]
Pourquoi n'appliquent-ils pas la démocracie au Pakistan?

[00:18:41.20]
[applaudissements]

[00:18:44.00]
Bush 
Merci à tous.

[00:18:45.00]
[applaudissements]

[00:18:48.20]
Bush
Merci, merci pour votre chaleureuse bienvenue.

[00:18:52.00]
Notre stratégie pour la protection de l'Amérique a une prémisse claire:

[00:18:56.10]
la sécurité de notre nation dépend du progrès de la liberté dans d'autres nations.

[00:19:02.20]
Le 11 Septembre 2001, nous avons vu que 

[00:19:05.00]
les problèmes nés dans un état en faillite et répressif à 7'000 miles d'ici

[00:19:10.20]
pouvaient amener le meurtre et la destruction à notre pays. Nous avons vu que les dictatures abritent les terroristes,

[00:19:18.10]
nourissent le ressentiment et le radicalisme et menacent la sécurité des nations libres.

[00:19:24.10]
Les démocracies remplacent le ressentiment par l'espoir.

[00:19:28.10]
Les démocracies respectent les droits de leurs citoyens et de leurs voisins,

[00:19:31.20]
Les démocracies participent à la lutte contre le terrorisme.

[00:19:35.10]
Et ainsi, l'Amérique s'engage à un but historique , à long terme:

[00:19:39.20]
pour assurer la paix dans le monde, nous recherchons la fin de la tyrannie dans notre monde

[00:19:47.00]
[Les USA ont constamment soutenu les dictatures militaires qui se sont succédées au Pakistan au cours de 60 ans]

[00:19:58.20]
[Dans tout le pays, des manifestations pour les personnes disparues et en soutien à un pouvoir judiciaire indépendant ont continué pendant 3 mois après le renvoi du chef de la Cour suprême.]

[00:20:04.20]
[Plus de quarante-cinq personnes ont perdu la vie dans les violences politiques qui ont suivi]

[00:20:12.20]
[CAS SIGNALES DE DISPARITIONS FORCEES AU PAKISTAN APRES 2001.. SOUCE: COMMISSION DES DROITS HUMAINS DU PAKISTAN [HRCP] – suivi par leurs noms]

[00:20:29.10]
Ejaz Ahsan  Commissaire aux Droits Humains du Pakistan 
Ce ne sont pas des chiffres, ce sont des gens

[00:20:37.20]
Juge Nasir Aslam Zahid – ex Juge de la Cour Suprême
I servizi segreti hanno l'audacia di affermare, attraverso rappresentanti del governo,

[00:20:42.20]
di non detenere nessuno..

[00:20:52.00]
Wazi Zafar: 
La maggior parte, ehm, questi, questi sono entrati nella guerra da parte de terrorismo

[00:21:03.00]
Iqbal Haider - Secrétaire Général, Commission des droits humains du Pakistan: 
Ça ne se fait pas, ce n'est pas acceptable. Ce n'est pas tolérable

[00:21:08.20]
Comment osez vous affirmer avoir le droit de déshabiller l'enfant?

[00:21:17.00]
Aftab Sherpao
Bien sûr, je suis aussi préoccupé.

[00:21:18.00]
Tout le monde est préoccupé si quelqu'un fait tout un foin à propos d'une personne disparue.

[00:21:22.10]
En ce sens, nous somme tous préoccupés.

[00:21:24.10]
Journaliste
Mais quelles mesures le gouvernement prend-il spécifiquement dans le cas des personnes disparues, pour essayer d'en retrouver la trace?

[00:21:31.00]
Sherpao
Que peut faire le gouvernement?

[00:21:31.00]
Le gouvernement peut, vous savez, trouver  - ehm, s'il appartient à une province, 

[00:21:36.00]
demander au gouvernement provincial, à d'autres...

[00:21:39.00]
Journaliste
c'est le travail du gouvernement.

[00:21:39.25]
Sherpao
Pardon?

[00:21:40.10]
Journ.
c'est le travail du gouvernement.

[00:21:40.10]
Sherpao
C'est le travail du gouvernement mais

[00:21:42.10]
seulement quan d on le signale au gouvernement.

[00:21:50.00]
Ali Dayan
Noud ne pouvons pas accepter un situation où – simplement parce que vus êtes la partie armée - 

[00:21:56.10]
signifie que vous pouvez entrer, m'enlever ou me tuer , sans la moindre crainte

[00:22:01.20]
d'une quelconque punition prévue par la loi.

[00:22:20.20]
Roedad Khan
Il y a de l'espoir pour les personnes disparues

[00:22:22.00]
Il y a de l'espoir pour les femmes de ce pays

[00:22:24.00]
Il y a de l'espoir pour les gens du Pakistan

[00:22:26.00]
N'ayez pas d'amertume

[00:22:27.30]
Le pouvoir des sans-pouvoir

[00:22:29.20]
Vous verrez le pouvoir des sans-pouvoir. Très bientôt.


MISSING IN PAKISTAN: traduzione italiana della trascrizione

[00:00:00.00]
[Scomparire in Pakistan - Duration 00:24:00:03 - Produttore: Ziad Zafar]

[00:00:13.01]
[Appello alla preghiera]

[00:00:23.10]
Giornalista
come la maggior parte delle dittature militari

[00:00:25.10]
Il Pakistan ha una fedina lamentevole per quanto riguarda i diritti umani

[00:00:27.13]
[Appello alla preghiera]

[00:00:29.06]
Da anni il popolo del Pakistano subisce umiliazioni

[00:00:32.10]
e violazioni diffuse dei suoi diritti civili e politici.

[00:00:37.29]
La violenza contro le donne e le minoranze è endemico

[00:00:40.27]
In un sistema che propende alle cacce alle streghe.

[00:00:44.19]
Però il coinvolgimento del Pakistan nella guerra dell'America contro il terrorismo

[00:00:47.24]
ha conferito una dimensione del tutto nuova a queste violazioni.

[00:00:50.28]
Organizzazioni internazionali dei Diritti Umani

[00:00:52.24]
affermano che la guerra ha offerto al governo militare di Islamabad

[00:00:55.17]
una cortina fumogena efficace all'autorizzazione di detenzioni arbitrarie, della tortura

[00:00:59.19 ]
e ha portato ad adottare una nuova tattica sinistra nell'affrontare il dissenso.

[00:01:04.021]
Lo chiamano rapimento sponsorizzato

[00:01:09.24]
Il governo pakistanese ha negato recisamente queste accuse. 

[00:01:12.17
Però negli anni recenti centinaia di persone sono semplicemente scomparse.

[00:01:17.29]
Si crede che siano prigioniere dai servizi segreti pakistanesi.

[00:01:27.16]
Alcuni emergono a Guantanamo Bay – Altri sono meno fortunati.

[00:01:33.17]
Rimangono persone scomparse in Pakistan

[00:01:35.10]
[Donna velata: Almeno ditemi cos'era la sua colpa?]

[00:01:38.14]
[Donna anziana: Per l'amor di Dio, ridatemi mio figlio]

[00:01:45.15]
[MISSING IN PAKISTAN / SCOMPARIRE IN PAKISTAN]

[00:01:50.22]
Anjelicka Pathak - Amnesty International 
Sappiamo che circa i 2/3 della gente a Guantanamo Bay

[00:01:53.17]
Anjelicka Pathak - Amnesty International 
sono stati trasferiti illegalmente dal Pakistan alla detenzione US.

[00:01:57.17]
Molte persone sono scomparse

[00:01:59.27]
in diversi siti segreti in tutto il mondo

[00:02:02.05]
e molti – un numero sconosciuto di persone -

[00:02:05.00]
sono scomparse nel Pakistan stesso.

[00:02:07.02]
Quindi è impossibile dare un numero esatto. Ma ciascuna di esse è una di troppo

[00:02:11.26]
Wasi Zafar – Ministro pakistanese del Diritto, dei Diritti Umani e della Giustizia
È soltanto un romanzo, soltanto un romanzo. Questo, questo non è, questo è una bugia

[00:02:20.01]
Giornalista
La bugia di chi?

[00:02:20.17]
Wasi Zafar
Cos'è? È la bugia di Amnesty International

[00:02:23.00]
Ali Dayan - Human Rights Watch
Nella grande varietà di violazioni dei Diritti Umani

[00:02:30.00]
che abbiamo documentato in Pakistan -

[00:02:32.10]
questo sviluppo è nuovo. Sappiamo che

[00:02:38.04]
le scomparse, come forma di mantenimento dell'ordine

[00:02:43.25]
sono state introdotte in Pakistan dopo la guerra contro il terrorismo

[00:02:49.10]
e questo significa che gli USA hanno avuto – beh, hanno giocato ruolo assolutamente cruciale

[00:03:01.26]
Giornalista
Sì, queste persone

[00:03:04.12]
Wasi Zafar – Minisro pakistanese del Diritto, dei Diritti Umani e della Giustizia
No, queste sono soltanto immagini, soltanto immagini

[00:03:07.06]
Giornalista
queste sono persone vere, sono persone

[00:03:08.08]
W. Zafar 
Nooo! Ascolti, no no, ascolti cosa succede.

[00:03:13.10]
Gente come – e ragazzi come lei che sfrutta le cose-

[00:03:18.16]
queste persone sono normalmente attratte dal terrorismo

[00:03:23.50]
fuggono da case, si raggiungono  certe organizzazioni, 

[00:03:27.12]
scompaiono da sé.

[00:03:30.25]
Giornalista
Ma oltre alle fotografie ci sono vere storie umane

[00:03:34.07]
come quella di Amina Masood, un'insegnante universitaria di 42 anni, e madre di 3 figli.

[00:03:40.13]
Suo marito Masood è scomparso 2 anni fa e non è stato più visto da allora.

[00:03:46.30]
Ingegnere di professione, 

[00:03:48.10]
Masood era un predicatore Musulmano "born again"
,

[00:03:51.00]
ma Amina afferma che non era collegato ad alcun gruppo politico.

[00:03:54.00]
Dice di aver capito subito che lui era stato rapito dai servizi segreti.

[00:03:58.10]
Amina Masood
L'ho dato per scontato sin dall'inizio,

[00:04:01.00]
perché questi erano i giorni in cui i giornali erano pieni di notizie del genere

[00:04:07.10]
Il governo stava rastrellando tante migliaia di persone – come in questo tipo di appelli.

[00:04:16.10]
E non gliene importa di cogliere le persone giuste - 

[00:04:20.00]
oppure quelle sbagliate

[00:04:22.10]
A loro bastava – bastava accontentare Washington e accontentare, sai,

[00:04:26.10]
Bush e Blair. Era il nuovo scopo del nostro governo.

[00:04:30.20]
Se qualsiasi male è capitato a Masood

[00:04:33.20]
Se la sua salute è stata danneggiata in qualsiasi modo

[00:04:38.10]
Non perdonerò 

[00:04:42.00]
Per quanto vivrò non perdonerò. 

[00:04:45.20]
Chiederò a questa gente. Sono loro i responsabili.

[00:04:48.20]
E perché, perché una persona così buona viene torturata?

[00:04:52.00]
Perché una persona così buona viene detenuta illegalmente?

[00:04:56.00]
E la famiglia non sa nemmeno – i figli non sanno nemmeno perché

[00:05:01.00]
e perché nostro padre e quando e dove e per quanto tempo?

[00:05:06.00]
È una sfilza di punti di domanda.

[00:05:01.00]
Lo devo trovare ad ogni costo. Lo devo trovare ovunque egli sia,

[00:05:14.00]
Devo riportarlo indietro

[00:05:16.10]
Da quel giorno io non – non ho più avuto riposo.

[00:05:19.30]
Giornalista
Anche se nessun impiegato del governo ha accettato di aiutarla

[00:05:21.00]
Amina ha lavorato presso Amnesty per trovare suo marito

[00:05:24.10]
Ha trovato un forum di azione unita e vi ha portato più di 100 famiglie come la sua

[00:05:27.00]
Donne che ripetono (in Urdu)
[Ridateci i nostri cari]

[00:05:28.20]
Giornalista
per manifestare contro la detensione illegale dei loro parenti

[00:05:32.20]
Però quando hanno provato a manifestare

[00:05:34.00]
Fuori del quartiere generale del potere militare pakistanese,

[00:05:36.20]
Si sono fatti dire di tornare a casa o di affrontare conseguenze sinistre.

[00:05:40.00]
Uomo
Datemi un solo buon motivo (?)

[00:05:44.00]
Giornalista
Quando hanno persistito la manifestazione è stata dispersa

[00:05:46.20]
e molti sono stati arrestati, compreso il figlio 16enne di Amina, Mohamed

[00:06:04.00]
Amina Masood
[Lasciate stare mio figlio]

[00:06:06.00]
Amina Masood
[Mollate mio figlio]

[00:06:09.00]
Poliziotto
[Mettetevi di lato]

[[00:06:11.10]
[grida]

[00:06:17.20]
[Uomo : Ma cosa sstate facendo... Lasciatelo indossare i suoi vestiti]

[[00:06:30.00]
Mohamed: 
[Aiuto... Aiuto!]

[00:06:33.00]
Polizio
[Buttatelo dentro ... bastardo viziato]

[00:06:41.00]
Mohamed
[Perché nessuno mi aiuta - Perché nessuno mi aiuta?]

[00:06:56.20]
Amina
[Voglio mio figlio, subito.]

[00:06:58.20]
[mio figlio, lo rivoglio subito]

[00:07:01.20]
Figlia di Amina
[Mamma, per favore, salva mio fratello]

[00:07:02.20]
[ti prego, riportalo]

[00:07:07.20]
[Mamma, per favore, salva mio fratello]

[00:07:09.00]
Amina
[Perché lo avete spogliato?]

[00:07:11.00]
[Bastardi! Crepate crepate crepate, spero che crepiate tutti]

[00:07:13.00]
Amina e sua figlia
[Bastardi! Crepate crepate crepate, spero che crepiate tutti]

[00:07:16.20]
Amina
[Spero che Dio non vi conceda un funerale]

[00:07:19.00]
[Prego che non vi conceda niente]

[00:07:22.10]
[Spero che muoiate tutti]

[00:07:26.00]
[Non osate toccare ai miei figli]

[00:07:30.10]
Amina Masood
Come figlia della nazione, era quello che meritavo?

[00:07:35.20]
Era un reato così grave manifestare, chiedere notizie di mio marito, quando sarebbe tornato

[00:07:41.10]
e qual è il suo reato? Al meno dovrei sapere di che cosa è reo

[00:07:46.00]
perché lo tengono lontano da noi

[00:07:53.30]
Non abbiamo diritti fondamentali?

[00:07:58.20]
Wasi Zafar – Ministro pakistanese del Diritto, dei Diritti Umani e della Giustizia
Sì, sono accuse infondate queste – no no, sono accuse esagerate. Esagerate.

[00:08:06.10]
La parola "business" dico – È lei a dire la parola "business"

[00:08:09.00]
Non ho utilizzato questa parola finora. Voi state utilizzando la parola businesss

[00:08:14.00]
Dico che queste accuse sono esagerate

[00:08:15.30]
Ali Dayan – HRW
Il Pakistan ha un apparato esteso di servizi secreti, un apparato di sicurezza

[00:08:22.20]
giù giù fino al livello del vicinato, in Pakistan,

[00:08:26.10]
si esercita la sorveglianza dei servizi segreti.

[00:08:31.00]
È un fatto della vita in Pakistan. È inevitabile e penso

[00:08:36.00]
che abbiamo superato di gran lunga il punto, in qualsiasi analisi del Pakistan

[00:08:40.10]
o persino in qualsiasi sguardo veloce, affrettato, sul Pakistan

[00:08:44.20]
dove poter negarlo; nessuno lo nega, nemmeno l'esercito lo nega.

[00:08:49.00]
Sono molto candidi sul fatto di avere quel tipo di presenza

[00:08:53.00]
Generale (in pensione) Hameed Gul – (ex capo dell'ISI [servizi segreti pakistanesi] (1987-90) 
Sa, si lasciano andare a queste cose

[00:08:56.00]
e ci sono eccessi e avvengono in ogni società.

[00:09:00.00]
Ad esempio della CIA a un certo punto si è detto: "è un governo invisibile".-

[00:09:05.00]
È stato scritto un libro su di loro.

[00:09:07.00]
E similmente tutti servizi segreti – hm, tendono,

[00:09:12.00]
a causa della natura clandestina del loro lavoro

[00:09:16.00]
tendono a superare i limiti, e bisogna trattenerli.

[00:09:20.00]
e al meglio che potevo, ho cercato di educare i miei uomini

[00:09:23.20]
di trattenerli e persino di far loro rimostranze in questi casi

[00:09:29.02]
Ali Dayan – HRW
A Human Rights Watch abbiamo documentato 

[00:09:31.30]
abbastanza casi di tortura da parte della polizia, della polizia pakistanes, 

[00:09:37.00]
e dei servizi segreti dell'esercito per sapere che si tratta soltanto di un fatto della vita,

[00:09:40.20]
È così, è quel che avviene qui.

[00:09:43.20]
La tortura è diffusa.

[00:09:45.30]
Asma Jahangir – Referente speciale de l'ONU sulla Tortura
e ci sono tante, tantissime prove

[00:09:50.10]
che il governo pakistanese sta mantenendo centri illegali di detenzione

[00:09:54.30]
dove la tortura avviene di routine

[00:10:01.10]
Giornalista: 
Ali Hassan è stato detenuto in una cella di tortura per 3 mesi

[00:10:03.20]
e interrogato congiuntamente da agenti segreti americani e pakistanesi

[00:10:08.00]
Nervosamente, ha accettato di parlarci

[00:10:11.20]
però soltatnto a patto che non usassimo il suo vero nome e che non mostrassimo la sua faccia

[00:10:14.00]
Ali Hassan' – vittima di scomparsa forzata e di tortura

[00:10:17.00]
[Ci hanno bendato gli occhi e mesi dei cappucci in testa]

[00:10:19.00]
[poi ci hanno spinto un una macchinar]

[00:10:21.30]
[quando ci hanno tolto le bende dagli occhi eravamo in una cella]

[00:10:25.20]
[Era sottoterra da qualche parte, è tutto quel che posso dire...]

[00:10:29.20]
[Ci hanno torturati in modi diversi]

[00:10:33.00]
[Ci bastonavano sulla pianta dei piedi]

[00:10:37.20]
[Mi tenevano legato e non mi lasciavano dormire...]

[00:10:40.00]
[per fino a 5 giorni di fila a volte.]

[00:10:42.10]
[Mi hanno fatto gli elettroshock due volte]

[00:10:45.20]
[Allacciavano il mio dito e fissavano una pinza sul mio stomaco e facevano passare la corrente da lì.

[00:10:56.10]
La prima volta era insopportabile... Era come se tanta gente ti stesse bastonando.]

[00:11:04.10]
[Poi tornavo cosciente, non era così penoso. La prima volta era quella peggiore.]

[00:11:15.10]
[Continuavano a chiedermi fove avevo nascosto la dinamite. Continuavo a dire che non sapevo.]

[00:11:19.20]
[Non ho mai visto dinamite nella vita vera... l'ho soltanto vista al cinema -]

[00:11:26.00]
Aftab Sherpao – Ministro degli interni pakistanese: Quando si parla di guerra contro il terrorismo, mi sembra, è una guerra di tipo diverso.

[00:11:33.10]
Qui – voi non guardate – guardate tutti – i danni che causano o il terrore che infliggono ad innocenti.

[00:11:43.00]
Siamo in mezzo a quel tipo di situazione dove stiamo combattendo una guerra contro il terrorismo

[00:11:51.00]
Giornalista
Lei dice è che alcune – se non quante ho suggerito -

[00:11:55.20]
che alcune libertà fondamentali sono state vittime di questa guerra contro il terrorismo?

[00:12:00.20]
Sherpao
Cosa intende con "alcune libertà fondamentali sono state--?

[00:12:03.10]
Giornalista
Che certi diritti umani sono stati trascurati o calpestati

[00:12:09.00]
Sherpao
Parla delle libertà dei terroristi?

[00:12:14.10]
Giornalista
dei cittadini

[00:12:15.00]
Sherpao
dei terroristi?

[00:12:17.00]
Abdul Hafeez Lakho – Avvocato specializzato in Diritti Umani: 
Abbiamo raggiunto il punto zero

[00:12:21.00]
Tutto questo succede, sì. Viviamo come cittadini liberi, ma non lo siamo

[00:12:27.10]
Non mi muovo o mi arresteranno – per quale reato verrò arrestato,

[00:12:31.10]
Quale malefatta? ... (?) che sarà dispiaciuto a qualcuno

[00:12:37.10]
Iqbal Haider – Segretario generale, Commissione dei Diritti Umani del Pakistan:
Non riesco a trovare parole adatte

[00:12:39.10]
per condannare quel costume di far scomparire persone in modo così palese

[00:12:45.00]
e di far soffrire innocenti, di farli languire, di sottoporli a tortura.

[00:12:51.20]
Oh Dio mio, non vi può essere barbarie più grave, più disumana.

[00:12:57.00]
Non viviamo all'era della Gestapo.

[00:13:01.00]
Giornalista
Mentre il campo dei media si è espanso in Pakistan

[00:13:03.20]
gli attacchi contro i giornalisti sono aumentati negli ultimi anni

[00:13:07.00]
Il Committee to protect Journalists, un osservatorio basato a New York,

[00:13:10.20]
ha classificato il Pakiestan tra i 3 paesi dove la libertà di stampa è più a rischio.

[00:13:17.10]
I reporter sul terreno[...?] Sanjay Kumar [?]

[00:13:20.0]
hanno filmato degli aerei di combattimento US che decollavano da una base all'interno del Pakistan 

[00:13:24.10]
di cui il governo negava che fosse utilizzata dagli USA:.

[00:13:27.20]
Sono stati illegalmente detenuti per 3 mesi e torturati.

[00:13:34.10]
Hanno avuto fortuna ad essere stati rilasciati

[00:13:35.10]
Donna
[Va tutto bene, non piangere, è tutto a posto]

[00:13:35.24]
Giornalista
Ma da allora non hanno parlato dai tormenti che hanno vissuto.

[00:13:37.30]
Donna
[Va tutto bene, non piangere, caro, è tutto a posto.]

[00:13:43.15]
[va tutto bene...]

[00:13:49.00]
Tasnim Aslam – Portavoce del ministero degli esteri pakistanese
Non ho conoscenza di alcun giornalista che sia stato, ehm, rapito oppure...

[00:13:54.00]
Voci che citano nomi [?]

[00:13:59.30]
Uomo 
Continua e dei giornalisti sono stati [...?] glielo posso dire.

[00:14:02.20]
T.Aslam
Io non ho sentito parlare di qualsiasi giornalista che sia stato, ehm, molestato

[00:14:07.30]
Non ho conoscenza di nessun caso specifico – c'è stato il caso di un giornalista

[00:14:12.10]
che è scomparso – Hayatullah ... Khan. Lui ... purtroppo è stata una cosa molto triste

[00:14:19.00]
il suo cadavere è stato ritrovato in seguito

[00:14:21.30]
Giornalista
Il giornalista Hayatullah Khan ha fotografato qualcosa

[00:14:24.00]
di cui il governo pakistanese diceva che non esisteva: rottami da un missile hell fire US

[00:14:28.30]
che aveva distrutto una casa nell'area tribale del Pakistan, uccidendo diversi civili pakistanesi

[00:14:33.10]
e una persona sospetta di essere militante di Al Qaida

[00:14:36.20]
Grida
[Tiranni! Rispondete del sangue che avete sparso!]

[00:14:38.10]
Giornalista
Però i casi sono più numerosi di quelli che il ministero degli esteri è pronto a discutere - 

[00:14:41.10]
innumerevoli casi di persecuzione e di detenzione di giornalisti sono stati documentati.

[00:14:44.20]
Grida
[Fermate le aggressioni contro i giornalisti]

[00:14:46.00]
Giornalista
Vi è stata una protesta sonora da parte di giornalisti e di membri della società civile

[00:14:50.20]
[Assalto della polizia agli uffici di Geo News - 19 marzo 2007]

[00:14:51.10]
Giornalista
ma gli attacchi contro la stampa sono continuati.

[00:14:57.00]
Generale [in pensione] Hameed Gul – ex capo dell'ISI (1986-90)
Sapete che la comunità internazionale non reagisce duramente.

[00:15:00.20]
Gli americani hanno scelto di tacere su questo punto perché hanno dato – perché stanno dando l'esempio

[00:15:06.10]
danno il la: hem, hanno prelevato persone 

[00:15:11.10]
le hanno spedite a  Gunatanamo Bay e a Abu Grahib.

[00:15:15.10]
Le storie sono uscite, anche sui campi di tortura a Kandahar e [...?] e tutte le storie sono lì.

[00:15:22.30]
Quindi fondamentalmente, come capo mondiale, campione mondiale e portabandiera dei Diritti Umani

[00:15:28.20]
L'America primeggia.

[00:15:29.30]
E quando fa così  il campione mondiale dei Diritti Umani

[00:15:32.20]
ovviamente i suoi piccoli protetti che sono i nostri governanti – possono spingersi fino a qualsiasi punto.

[00:15:39.30]
Giudice Nasir Aslam Zahid – Ex giudice della Corte Suprema
Se gli USA e le altre agenzie fermeranno l'aiuto al Pakistan, 

[00:15:45.20]
non sarà a causa della violazione dei Diritti Umani, bensì for altri motivi.

[00:15:52.00]
Sarà una decisione di strategia politica, - ma non di condanna (?) del Pakistan 

[00:15:56.30]
Diranno: "Il Pakistan non è più un paese necessario in questo procedimento"

[00:16:02.30]
Oppure: "Il Pakistan ha fatto abbastanza per la nostra vittoria in Afghanistan".

[00:16:08.10]
E secondo me il Pakistan verrà penalizzato per qesto, non per la violazione dei Diritti Umani.

[00:16:15.20]
[Amina Masood ha inoltrato una petizione a nome di quasi cento famiglie di persone scomparse che chiedono ai tribunali di aiutarle a trovare i loro cari-]

[00:16:21.00]
[Il giudice supremo del Pakistan, il Giudice capo Iftikhar Chaudry, aveva preso in mano la causa e chiamato il governo militare a rendere conto del suo ruolo delle scomparse forzate.]

[00:16:27.30]
[A marzo 2007, mentre la causa veniva udita (?), il generale Musharraf [dismissed – check] il Giudice capo e lo mise agli arresti domiciliari.]

[00:16:31.00]
[Il paese esplose in una salva di manisfestazioni violenti che quasi fecero cadere il potere di Musharraf...]

[00:16:35.00]
[Voci di manifestanti, soprattutto in Urdu, con "Go Musharraf Go" (via, Musharraf, via) in inglese]

[00:16:54.10]
Giornalista TV
La capitale del Pakistan, Islamabad, è un campo di battaglia oggi, con migliaia di persone in strada a protestare

[00:17:00.00]
Il siluramento del Giudice capo  Chaudry Iftikhar.

[00:17:04.30]
È visto da tanti come un attacco autocratico al potere giudiziario da parte di un

[00:17:09.20]
governante sempre più autocratico

[00:17:11.30]
La società civile si è adirata vedendo il Giudice della Corte Suprema trascinato per i capelli

[00:17:16.20]
e malmenato da un poliziotto di basso rango.

[00:17:19.00]
Migliaia di persone continuano a manifestare in tutto il paese – Dozzine di esse sono state arrestate

[00:17:22.30]
I giudici hanno abbandonato i loro scrani, gli avvocati rifiutano di perorare cause in tribunale,

[00:17:26.00]
i partiti dell'opposizione sono uniti nella condanna e la stampa è partita all'assalto.

[00:17:31.00]
Una tempesta si sta preparando in Pakistan mentre il dittatore osannato dall'Occidente

[00:17:31.00]
sembra stia perdendo il controllo

[00:17:37.00]
[voci di manifestanti, con "Go Musharraf Go"]

[00:17:40.00]
[La Casa Bianca ha rifiutato di commentare la crisi politica, definendola:]

[00:17:43.00]
["Un affare interno del popolo pakistanese"]

[00:17:47.00]
Roedad Khan – Ambientalista e funzionario in pensione
Perché avete combinato questo? Il paese di Madison, il paese di Jefferson, 

[00:17:55.00]
gente – gente che credeva nel governo del popolo dal popolo per il popolo -

[00:18:01.30]
Perché sostengono l'incapacità? Perché sostengono l'usurpatore di capacità in Pakistan (?)?

[00:18:07.10]
Hanno una regola per se stessi, hanno un'altra regola per il popolo pakistanese

[00:18:12.20]
che uccide la democrazia. Perché la democrazia finisce qui? [?]

[00:18:16.20]
Perché non applicano la democrazia al Pakistan?

[00:18:41.20]
[applausi]

[00:18:44.00]
Bush 
Grazie a tutti.

[00:18:45.00]
[applausi]

[00:18:48.20]
Bush
Grazie, grazie per il caloroso benvenuto

[00:18:52.00]
La nostra strategia per proteggere l'America è basata su una premessa chiara:

[00:18:56.10]
la sicurezza della nostra nazione dipende dal progresso della libertà in altre nazioni.

[00:19:02.20]
L'11 settembre 2001 abbiamo visto che

[00:19:05.00]
i problemi nati in uno stato fallito e repressivo a 7'000 miglia da qui

[00:19:10.20]
potevano portare eccidio e distruzione nel nostro paese. Abbiamo visto dittature che proteggevano terroristi,

[00:19:18.10]
che alimentavano il risentimento e il radicalismo, e minacciavano la sicurezza delle nazioni libere.

[00:19:24.10]
Le democrazie sostituiscono la speranza al risentimento.

[00:19:28.10]
Le democrazie rispettano i diritti dei propri cittadini e dei loro vicini,

[00:19:31.20]
Le democrazie si uniscono alla lotta contro il terrorismo.

[00:19:35.10]
Quindi l'America si impegna per un obiettivo storico, a lungo termine:

[00:19:39.20]
per assicurare la pace del mondo, noi cerchiamo la fine della tirannide nel nostro mondo.

[00:19:47.00]
[Gli USA hanno regolarmente sosteuto le dittature militari che si sono alternate per 60 anni in Pakistan]

[00:19:58.20]
[In tutto il paese, manifestazioni per le persone scomparse e a sostegno di un potere giudiziario indipendente hanno continuato per tre mesi dopo il siluramento del giudice capo


[00:20:04.20]
[Oltre 45 persone hanno perso la vita nelle violenze politiche conseguenti]

[00:20:12.20]
[CASI DI SCOMPARSE FORZATE IN PAKISTAN DOPO IL 2001. FONTE: HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION OF PAKISTAN [HRCP] – Seguono i nomi]]

[00:20:29.10]
Ejaz Ahsan Commissario ai Diritti Umani del Pakistan 
... parlate di persone, non di numeri

[00:20:37.20]
Giudice Nasir Aslam Zahid – ex giudice della Corte Suprema
I servizi segreti hanno la faccia tosta di affermare attraverso funzionari del governo

[00:20:42.20]
di non detenere nessuno.

[00:20:52.00]
Wazi Zafar: 
La maggior parte di loro- ehm – fanno la guerra con i terroristi

[00:21:03.00]
Iqbal Haider – Segretario generale,, Human rights Commission of Pakistan
Queste cose non si fanno, non sono accettabili, non sono tollerabili

[00:21:08.20]
Come osate dire "possiamo denudare quel bambino?"

[00:21:17.00]
Aftab Sherpao 
Ehm, sono preoccupato anch'io

[00:21:18.00]
Tutti sono preoccupati se c'è qualcuno che solleva un putiferio a proposito di una persona scomparsa.

[00:21:22.10]
In questo senso, siamo tutti preoccupati.

[00:21:24.10]
Giornalista
Ma quali misure specifiche vengono prese dal governo nel caso delle persono scomparse, per cercare di rintracciarle?

[00:21:31.00]
Sherpao
Cosa può fare il governo?

[00:21:31.00]
Il governo può, sa, accertare – ehm – se appartiene a una provincia,

[00:21:36.00]
chiedere a l governo provinciale, da altri

[00:21:39.00]
Giornalista
È il compito del governo

[00:21:39.25]
Sherpao
Scusi?

[00:21:40.10]
Journ.
È il compito del governo

[00:21:40.10]
Sherpao
È il compito del governo, ma soltanto se la cosa viene portata a conoscenza del governo. 

[00:21:42.10]
No, quando è a proposito - (?...)
[00:21:50.00]

Ali Dayan
Non possiamo accettare una situazione dove, soltanto perché voi siete il partito armato - 

[00:21:56.10]
potete venire, sequestrarmi o uccidermi, senza temere

[00:22:01.20]
qualsiasi conseguenza legale.

[00:22:20.20]
Roedad Khan
C'è speranza per le persone scomparse

[00:22:22.00]
C'è speranza per le donne di questo paese

[00:22:24.00]
C'è speranza per il popolo del Pakistan

[00:22:26.00]
Non siate amari

[00:22:27.30]
Il potere dei senza potere

[00:22:29.20]
Vedrete il potere dei senza potere. Molto presto